--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote:

> Okay, it sounds like I could skip the slew stuff and put together a
> vocoder in a single row supplemented with my existing modules. Or,
> I could get a 6U frame and put together a full-up vocoder with 3
> 129/3s.

hi joe, go for the 6U and make it portable if you can, that way you
can always take it with you to a gig or session. plus you'll kick
yourself in the teeth when you may want to expand it and have to buy
another case.

>
> I've got a couple more questions:
>
> I thought the 129/4 could control three 129/3s. Why is 3 X 129/4
> suggested

the A129/4 can control either 1, 2 or 3 A129/3 slew-limiters. it all
depends on the sound texture you wish to have. you could use 1 slew
controller for 3 slew -limiters to have a homogenous slew of all the
bands or you could do combinations with 1, 2, or 3 slew controllers
to animate the process further, i.e you 1 slew controller doing the
lower and higher bands and a second slew controller for the middle
bands to make the slew slower or faster than the other bands for
accenting or any combination there of between the slew limiters and
slew controllers.

now if you mismatch the bands from the analysis section to the
synthesis section and apply the above process you get different
results. again experimentation is the key. it is important that the
material analyzed is devoid of noise, distortion etc. and is as clean
and clear as possible once you start doing your vocoding, unless you
are looking for that effect. a little compression on before the input
also affects the analysis, try it out and see what is agreeable to
your ear or the track you making.

>
> I still don't grok how the variable waveform capability of the 146

is

> used with a vocoder, but I suppose it would become clear if I

actually

> tried it.

think of it as PWM, except you are changing the harmonic distribution
of the triangle by manually changing the wave from rising sawtooth to
descending sawtooth. when is it rising it feels like the attack of an
EG and drops to its start point. when is it is descending it starts
at the top and decays like an EG and starts at the top again.

my sugestion to Doepfer would to emcompass all of the functions of
the A145, A146 and A147 and put them into one module with a gate
delay instead of having all these lfo's with different functions. one
obvious improvement to the A146 would be to have voltage control of
the waveform shape. it is impossible to do so right now with the
current lfo's. maybe we should have a poll to ask Doepfer to make
such a module. or make a double lfo with all of the above functions
and have a switch to put them in a quadrature relationship to each
other and have a pot to control the time and a vc input.

>
> The 129/1/2 documentation talks about a "special" 191 that has

three

> additional CV outs, instead of the midi-sync LFO, to give enough CV
> outs for the 129/2. So if I wanted midi in/out for the vocoder, I'd
> have to get ANOTHER 191

yes, that is correct.

regards,
RM

>
> Does anyone know about this "special" 191 I've never seen one
> anywhere. It would be kind of slick, I could also use my Regelwerk

as

> a graphic EQ with the 129/2.
>
> I suppose I could just get a second stock 191 and use it on a
> different channel, but then I'd have to remap the 129/1 outputs

going

> out through a 192 to get it to work on playback.
>
> Joe
> --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...> wrote:
> > You are indeed an intense vocoding wildman. I should point out

that

> > someone newly experimenting with vocoding could get 80% of the

way

> there
> > with the analysis and synthesis modules and a preamp and something
> > feeding the instrument input -- richest choice obviously being
> sawtooth
> > waves. All right, perhaps also the voiced/unvoiced detector.
> > Everything else builds from that. I also believe that for simple
> > vocoding, there are cheaper routes -- the real beauty of Doepfer's
> > version is its complete open-endedness. Frankly, it can actually
> sound
> > a little dirty, not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
> >
> > And now, senseless rambling about cases and aesthetics: I *love*
> the
> > idea of a 4-row 168-hp case. I've got 9 84-hp rows in a couple of
> > Raxxess racks, which is fine but inelegant. Then again, when you
> start
> > patching up those closely-space Doepfer modules with skinny
> > technicolored patchcords the look becomes inelegant pretty fast
> anyway.
> > The Doepfer is a kickass modular cleverly disguised as cheap lab
> > equipment. I really just care about the sound. I like the looks

of

> > Analogue Systems' case, but it's so expensive. Somehow
> Synthesizers.com
> > manages to offer a great-looking slanted case for much, much

less.

> I
> > wish it fit Doepfer-size modules.
> >
> > If Synthesizers.com offered anywhere near the module catalog of
> Doepfer,
> > I'd be severely tempted, both for ergonomics -- big knobs, large
> > real-estate -- and jacks longevity. I need to find some
> impoverished
> > person surviving on beads of solder to do a massive banana-jack
> > retrofit. That would render the machine immortal. I'd never

trust

> > myself to do it.
> >
> >
> > ringmod45 wrote:
> > >
> > > hi joe, doepfer recommends the A117 because of the 808 sound
> source
> > > part has 2 sound sources which are harmonicaly rich and complex
> and
> > > the digital noise or you could use the A118's straight white and
> > > coloured noise which contains all the frequencies both flat and
> > > coloured with different spectrum shifts.
> > >
> > > what the A117 has is a tuned bank of sawtooth oscillators. the
> plus
> > > side is you have a harmonically rich source, the down side is

you

> > > have no tuning available on the source. you could always use

an

> A121
> > > multimode filter to modify the source. but remember if you are
> using
> > > it as an unvoiced source, having the ability to tune the source

is

> > > redundant. same goes with the digital noise. if you use an A147
> lfo
> > > which is synced to the tempo of your track, you could use it to
> > > modulate the A117's digital noise and have a random synced

source

> for
> > > your voiced or unvoiced input. you could also use an A115

divider

> as
> > > a real time modulator for the the A147's vc input. the best

thing

> to
> > > do is to experiment, think outside of the box.
> > >
> > > to really implement the vocoder to its maximum capabilities, you
> > > would need to have the A129-1/2, 3 A129/3, 3A129/4 and 1 A129/5.
> > >
> > > you will then need a compliment of modules for sources,

modifiers

> and
> > > processors. you will need an A119 for input and envelope

follower

> > > functions to bring an external source for the speech input. you
> will
> > > need an A117 and an A118 or both as a source for the unvoiced
> noise
> > > input. you will need at least 1 A110 or A111 for the voiced

input.

> > > you will need a mixer to mix the vocoded output with the high

out

> of
> > > the A129/1. you need at least one of each following to control

the

> > > A129/4, 1 A147, 1 A132, 1 A148 and 1 A140.
> > >
> > > if you wish to have more control, you can add the A191 & A192 to
> > > record, edit and playback your vocoded material. another
> suggestion
> > > would be to use the A129/3 slew-limiters after the A129/1

analysis

> > > section as manual controllers before the A192 for a rough

realtime

> > > sketch for further editing in your pc sequencer.
> > >
> > > if you want to have a smooth transition between the voiced and
> > > unvoiced inputs, you will need 2 A170's or A171's if you wish to
> > > voltage control of the transitions, 2 A130's, 1 A165 and 1 A138

to

> do
> > > the job.
> > >
> > > i have 2 portable A100 cases dedicated to external processing,
> here
> > > is the layout
> > > case #1
> > >
> > > top A117, A148, A147, A171, A171, A132, ASo MX224, ASo MX61,
> A115
> > > bot A177, A119, A119, A129/1, A129/3, A129/3, power supply
> > >
> > > case #2
> > > top A129/5, A129/4 ASo Mx224, 2 x A121, 2 x A125, 2xASy

rs120,

> A134
> > > bot A129/3, A192, A191, A136, A136, ASy rs60, A138, power

supply

> > >
> > > i also change modules around when more of one needed than the
> other.i
> > > plan build next case to include 1 more A124, 2 A127, 2 ASy rs240
> > > frequency shifters, 2 ASy rs310, 2 A103 and 1 A174.
> > >
> > > once the Analogue Systems VC delays arrive i plan on building a
> > > special 4 row case with 168 hp per row. i hope some this helps

you

> in
> > > your quest for a vocoder.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > > RM
> > >
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...>

wrote:

> > > > Hi RM
> > > > I have four rows of modules, so I was considering the 129/1

and

> > > 129/2
> > > > and associated modules that would fit in a single 3U row.
> > > >
> > > > So maybe 129/1, 129/2 and 3X 129/3 - 80U, there's a row.
> > > >
> > > > Or for adding vocal processing, maybe 129/1, 129/2, 129/3,
> 129/5,
> > > 117,
> > > > 146, 192 (for recording the analysis CVs.)
> > > >
> > > > Why is DNG recommended on the Doepfer web page I already

have

> an
> > > 118,
> > > > would that be adequate for unvoiced
> > > >
> > > > Likewise the 146 I already have 2X 145 and 147
> > > >
> > > > Sorry I'm a bit ingnorant about vocoder stuff.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...>

wrote:

> > > > > Joe,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not quite sure I'm getting the gist of your

terms "voice"

> and
> > > > > "one-row configuration", but as for the vocoder I'd say you
> could
> > > > get by
> > > > > for a lot of purposes just fine with just the analysis

section

> > > and
> > > > the
> > > > > synthesis section (A-129/1 and A-129/2). If you're

bringing

> in a
> > > > > microphone, the A-129/5 is useful. The A-129/3 takes you

into

> a
> > > > realm
> > > > > of being able to edit the voltages you're bringing into the
> > > > synthesis
> > > > > section (three 129/3s -- the ideal full complement -- turns
> the
> > > > vocoder
> > > > > into a filterbank; I've only got one), and the A-129/4 adds
> slew.
> > > > >
> > > > > For most of my uses, I'm really only using the analysis and
> > > > synthesis
> > > > > modules. That certainly won't eat up a row.
> > > > >
> > > > > But if by "one-row configuration" you mean a 3U row of

modules

> as
> > > > the
> > > > > extent of the instrument, I think the standard 3U
> configuration
> > > > offered
> > > > > by Doepfer hits the mark with module choices for

versatility,

> and
> > > > > shoehorning in the vocoder would probably not be advisable
> > > there.
> > > > If
> > > > > you just wanted a simple outboard vocoder you could

probably

> pick
> > > up
> > > > an
> > > > > Electrix WarpFactory for under $200 on eBay, and though not
> > > modular
> > > > it's
> > > > > a pretty fun and good-sounding, especially for the price.
> > > Frankly
> > > > it
> > > > > tempts me, too, for certain kinds of quick and easy
> > > > formant-capturing,
> > > > > and it's stereo.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > buechlerjoe wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi UF
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You've got me kind of interested. Jeez, I swore I was

happy

> > > with
> > > > my
> > > > > > A100 configuration, too :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What you recommend for a Vocoder configuration as a
> supplement
> > > to
> > > > an
> > > > > > existing A100 voice Would this allow a decent one-row
> > > > configuration
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. As far as EVERYONE's knowledge here in the group, I
> think
> > > > > > that's what's unquestionable. I'm constantly amazed at the
> > > range
> > > > of
> > > > > > useful information shared by everyone here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., unknown freak <ospengler@r...>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hey Pig,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't mind your having a wallow. Yes, I've got the
> > > vocoder,
> > > > and I
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > and like it a lot, also never vocally controlled. My

most

> > > > typical
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > actually involves controlling it with a sine wave from a
> > > > sequenced
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > LFO'd or etc. VCO or resonating filter to pick out
> individual
> > > > bands.
> > > > > > > Vocoders have a ton of uses. My comment that the patch
> Peter
> > > > > > described
> > > > > > > could be done with the vocoder was prime facie true --
> what's
> > > a
> > > > > > vocoder
> > > > > > > after all but a fixed filterbank in which each band has
> its
> > > own
> > > > VCA.
> > > > > > > The difference is that the vocoder has one unity output
> for
> > > all
> > > > the
> > > > > > > bands, but as I said, for lots of uses that wouldn't
> really
> > > > matter.
> > > > > > > There must be patches for which it *would* matter to

have

> > > > individual
> > > > > > > band outputs for separate processing, but for simple
> VCAing
> > > of
> > > > bands
> > > > > > > where they'd be going to the same destination, the

vocoder

> > > does
> > > > the
> > > > > > > job. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be an

individual

> band
> > > > output
> > > > > > > helper module for the fixed filter bank, just that the
> > > > particular
> > > > > > > example sounded like one that could be done without one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for as Peter's knowledge, it's unquestionable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y...
> > >
> > >
> > >
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