Hi,

the chicken/egg problem is discussed at Muffwiggler's, too. I'll just quote daverj from the 'some frustration w/ Zeus and POWER' thread:
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php p=327649#327649

<quote>
The 5 volt power issue being talked about in a couple of other threads is more about planning for the future, and maybe changing things for the better. The current state of affairs with 5 volts is in a "chicken or the egg" state.

1 - manufactures who design a module that could use lots of 5 volts, only sometimes use the 5 volt bus because the cases today typically have no 5 volts or a limited amount of it.

2 - the case manufacturers don't add large 5 volt supplies because the majority of modules don't use the 5 volt bus.

3 - loop back to #1

The 5 volt thread is trying to convince people to break the above cycle by making large 5 volt supplies standard so that module designers will start using the bus more.
</quote>

Btw. the ZEUS power supply from Tip Top Audio already has a dedicated +5V power supply, see:
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php t=23105

The module manufacturers won't change anything until there is a broad on-board supply for +5V which means that Doepfer as the Eurorack grandfather has to step in or nothing will ever change.

I myself will stop buying any housing until there is a +5V supply in there.
I will also not buy any module with an on-board +5V regulator which draws current from the +12V rail without the option of using the +5V rail instead. That concretely means I won't buy the A-187-1 and A-189-1 which are on my want list until then.

Wir sind das Volk!

Greetings
Joachim

-------- Original-Nachricht --------

> Datum: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 19:38:51 -0800
> Von: James Husted < james.husted@... >
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: 1 Request for a +5V/+12V/-12V power supply in the standard housings

> As far as I know there is only one module in the Doepfer lineup that
> requires a separate +5V supply and that is the MIDI>CV converter. Of all the
> manufacturers out there I think that Analogue Solutions and Analog Systems are
> the only companies in the eurorack format that require a separate +5v
> signal - all the digital modules I know of convert the +12V to +5 on the module
> so the "not supporting the +5V rail" is a industry trend and not just
> something Doepfer is doing. What Digital modules out there would use this
> separate +5V line if there was one Is the Digital ground>Analog ground a real
> problem on the modules that do convert it onboard. I assume it is isolated
> on them. I think the major problem is that the digital modules that do
> convert the +12v make an extra load for that side of the supply. More should
> convert from the -12v supply to balance it out. There are very few modules
> that even offer an option to choose to use the +5v supply bus - IIRC Scott
> Harvestman said he once offered a jumper option on one of his modules and
> nobody used it so he discontinued it. Until the module makers all convert over
> to using the +5v bus there is no reason to burden the rest of the
> non-digital users with the expense of a separate supply.
> -James
>
> **Disclaimer** As you can see from my sig I design for Synthwerks and have
> to disclose that we make a module (the PC5V) that converts the +12v supply
> to +5v and pipes it to the bus (and front panel with a level control. I
> have to admit it is not a big seller for these reasons. There seems to be a
> lot of modules that require it.
>
>
> James Husted
> Designer, Synthwerks LLC
> www.synthwerks.com
> james@...
> synthwerks@...
>
>
> On Nov 9, 2010, at 1:31 PM, Joachim wrote:
>
> > Hello there,
> >
> > there is currently a lot of talk going on about Doepfer not supporting
> > the +5V rail with the standard housings. Here is the thread:
> > http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php t=24399
> >
> > Short summary:
> >
> > a. There is definitely a demand that the power supply in the standard
> > housings supports +5V
> > b. +5V is used for digital modules and therefore should have a separate
> > digital ground on the whole way (module => cable => bus board => power
> > supply) to avoid digital noise coming over the common ground.
> >
> > Necessary steps:
> >
> > For a:
> > 1. Using either tri output power supplies like the ready-made Meanwell
> > T-60C or an additional 5V power supply, e.g. the Meanwell S-25-5 with
> > 5,0A of +5V. Meanwell is just an example, there are several other
> > manufacturers like Power One and a current transformer with
> > +5V/+12V/-12V outputs could be used, too, of course.
> >
> > For b:
> > 2. Change the specification for the power connection so that one of the
> > three ground lines is reserved for the digital ground while the other
> > two remain for the analog ground. It would still be compatible to the
> > old specification with the downside of more noise which is what happens
> > at the moment anyway when the +5V is taken from the +12V rail without a
> > separate digital ground.
> > 3. Change the bus boards to implement the separate digital ground.
> > 4. Change the existing +5V modules to make use of the separate digital
> > ground.
> >
> > While we are at the subject of a bus board change: There is a big demand
> > for keyed connectors, too. They would help to avoid wrong connections
> > for modules which use the specification, force the manufactures who are
> > ignoring the key position specification to support it and help to
> > connect the modules which is currently a pain in the a**.
> > I myself would gladly pay the slightly higher price for keyed connector
> > bus boards.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Joachim
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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