yes that may have been an odd thread to point to. I find it even odder that
one would create a standard which has been accepted my many other
manufacturers, and then later ditch part if it, leaving the userbase who
have adopted it to fend for themselves.

that said, eurorack is often DIY and now there are many producers of
modules, cases, and accessories, and this maybe the beginning of a true
"standard" that sets itself apart from any one company, and instead is
supported by the global community. I'm glad I could get a case from a
private craftsman, get some off-the-shelf linear power supplies, power
distro made in my country, and modules from all over the world to create
something far above the sum of it's parts. (doepfer is a large part of this
system with its excellent a-150 & a-160 series as well as other choice
modules from the a-100 line)

complaints only need to be made towards the eurorack community at large, who
have created the need for this 5vdc supply. I have a hefty 5vdc line in my
system, but there still seems to be a lack of ready-made cases supporting
5vdc. if doepfer isn't using 5vdc in their modules and doesn't plan to, I
see no reason they should include it in their cases.

if doepfer is drawing power from the 12v rail and regulating it to 5v,
that's another story. one that I can say I do not personally understand.

sent from phone

On Nov 10, 2010, at 5:45 AM, < sonicwarrior@... > sonicwarrior@... wrote:



Hi,

the chicken/egg problem is discussed at Muffwiggler's, too. I'll just quote
daverj from the 'some frustration w/ Zeus and POWER' thread:
< http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php p=327649#327649 >< http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php p=327649#327649 >
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php p=327649#327649

<quote>
The 5 volt power issue being talked about in a couple of other threads is
more about planning for the future, and maybe changing things for the
better. The current state of affairs with 5 volts is in a "chicken or the
egg" state.

1 - manufactures who design a module that could use lots of 5 volts, only
sometimes use the 5 volt bus because the cases today typically have no 5
volts or a limited amount of it.

2 - the case manufacturers don't add large 5 volt supplies because the
majority of modules don't use the 5 volt bus.

3 - loop back to #1

The 5 volt thread is trying to convince people to break the above cycle by
making large 5 volt supplies standard so that module designers will start
using the bus more.
</quote>

Btw. the ZEUS power supply from Tip Top Audio already has a dedicated +5V
power supply, see:
< http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php t=23105 >< http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php t=23105 >
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php t=23105

The module manufacturers won't change anything until there is a broad
on-board supply for +5V which means that Doepfer as the Eurorack grandfather
has to step in or nothing will ever change.

I myself will stop buying any housing until there is a +5V supply in there.
I will also not buy any module with an on-board +5V regulator which draws
current from the +12V rail without the option of using the +5V rail instead.
That concretely means I won't buy the A-187-1 and A-189-1 which are on my
want list until then.

Wir sind das Volk!

Greetings
Joachim

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 19:38:51 -0800
> Von: James Husted < <james.husted%40mac.com> < james.husted@... >
james.husted@... >
> An: <Doepfer_a100%40yahoogroups.com> < Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com >
Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: 1 Request for a +5V/+12V/-12V power supply in
the standard housings

> As far as I know there is only one module in the Doepfer lineup that
> requires a separate +5V supply and that is the MIDI>CV converter. Of all
the
> manufacturers out there I think that Analogue Solutions and Analog Systems
are
> the only companies in the eurorack format that require a separate +5v
> signal - all the digital modules I know of convert the +12V to +5 on the
module
> so the "not supporting the +5V rail" is a industry trend and not just
> something Doepfer is doing. What Digital modules out there would use this
> separate +5V line if there was one Is the Digital ground>Analog ground a
real
> problem on the modules that do convert it onboard. I assume it is isolated
> on them. I think the major problem is that the digital modules that do
> convert the +12v make an extra load for that side of the supply. More
should
> convert from the -12v supply to balance it out. There are very few modules
> that even offer an option to choose to use the +5v supply bus - IIRC Scott
> Harvestman said he once offered a jumper option on one of his modules and
> nobody used it so he discontinued it. Until the module makers all convert
over
> to using the +5v bus there is no reason to burden the rest of the
> non-digital users with the expense of a separate supply.
> -James
>
> **Disclaimer** As you can see from my sig I design for Synthwerks and have
> to disclose that we make a module (the PC5V) that converts the +12v supply
> to +5v and pipes it to the bus (and front panel with a level control. I
> have to admit it is not a big seller for these reasons. There seems to be
a
> lot of modules that require it.
>
>
> James Husted
> Designer, Synthwerks LLC
> < http://www.synthwerks.com > < http://www.synthwerks.com >www.synthwerks.com
> <james%40synthwerks.com> < james@... > james@...
> <synthwerks%40me.com> < synthwerks@... > synthwerks@...
>
>
> On Nov 9, 2010, at 1:31 PM, Joachim wrote:
>
> > Hello there,
> >
> > there is currently a lot of talk going on about Doepfer not supporting
> > the +5V rail with the standard housings. Here is the thread:
> > < http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php t=24399 >< http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php t=24399 >
http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php t=24399
> >
> > Short summary:
> >
> > a. There is definitely a demand that the power supply in the standard
> > housings supports +5V
> > b. +5V is used for digital modules and therefore should have a separate
> > digital ground on the whole way (module => cable => bus board => power
> > supply) to avoid digital noise coming over the common ground.
> >
> > Necessary steps:
> >
> > For a:
> > 1. Using either tri output power supplies like the ready-made Meanwell
> > T-60C or an additional 5V power supply, e.g. the Meanwell S-25-5 with
> > 5,0A of +5V. Meanwell is just an example, there are several other
> > manufacturers like Power One and a current transformer with
> > +5V/+12V/-12V outputs could be used, too, of course.
> >
> > For b:
> > 2. Change the specification for the power connection so that one of the
> > three ground lines is reserved for the digital ground while the other
> > two remain for the analog ground. It would still be compatible to the
> > old specification with the downside of more noise which is what happens
> > at the moment anyway when the +5V is taken from the +12V rail without a
> > separate digital ground.
> > 3. Change the bus boards to implement the separate digital ground.
> > 4. Change the existing +5V modules to make use of the separate digital
> > ground.
> >
> > While we are at the subject of a bus board change: There is a big demand
> > for keyed connectors, too. They would help to avoid wrong connections
> > for modules which use the specification, force the manufactures who are
> > ignoring the key position specification to support it and help to
> > connect the modules which is currently a pain in the a**.
> > I myself would gladly pay the slightly higher price for keyed connector
> > bus boards.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Joachim
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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