i think this issue needs some more investigation.
both points are valid, each solution has it's advantages.
it is really difficult, because only few people have heard
an original buchla 259 and know about the special behaviour
of this unit.

maybe we can get some raw recordings of the buchla 259
from anywhere just to know what we are talking about.

best wishes

ingo


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com , "ALMAGATA@t..." <almagata@t...>
wrote:

> Then,
>
> As i said, the expander is only a new waveshaper....
> Again, I don`t like the sound of 3340 VCOs, theese are too clinical

and

> lack of the raw power of discrete VCOs, also we will miss a new

VCO...

> I know would be an effort for dieter making a new VCO, (dual VCO in

we

> want a 259 module) but I think is time for a new one with different
> carateristics than the 110 and 111. The poll was for a buchla 259
> complex oscillator, not for a waveshaper module, and I don`t want

to

> buy another waveshaper.
> May be the CEM is triangle core, but what about the sound What

about

> the response to FM where is the AM What about all the previous
> discussion about the sonic differences between VCOs The buchla

design

> have an organic quality that will be missed using a CEM3340 or

other

> designs, the 259 VCO core have a sound and a quality of its own.

I`m

> sure I can use my serge NTO and EMS AKS triangle outs to this
> waveshaper and it will sound a lot better than using the A111

triangle

> out, so is not just the waveshaper.
> If the 111 expander is made, we will not see a buchla VCO in the

future

> for sure...
> Please consider this and vote in the poll.
> Best Regards,
>
> Josue.
>
> ----- Mensaje Original -----
> De: Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@y...>
> Fecha: Viernes, Agosto 6, 2004 12:52 pm
> Asunto: Fwd: AW: [Doepfer_a100]buchla 259 vco or expander(dieter's
> answer)
>
> >
> > --- Dieter Doepfer <hardware@d...> wrote:
> >
> > > From: "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@d...>
> > > To: "Bakis Sirros" <synth_freak_2000@y...>
> > > Subject: AW: 1 Re: New poll for
> > > Doepfer_a100
> > > Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:48:48 +0200
> > >
> > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > Von: Bakis Sirros
> > > 2
> > > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. August 2004 21:01
> > > > An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Betreff: Re: 1 Re: New poll for
> > > Doepfer_a100
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > hello psm,
> > > > i don't know that yet.but,i guess that you'll have
> > > to
> > > > only connect the triangle output of the a111 to
> > > the
> > > > expander module via a normal patchcable.dieter
> > >
> > > right. Probably only a patch from triangle out to
> > > the waveshaper module.
> > >
> > > The suggested "A-111 expansion module" will of
> > > course not only work with the
> > > A-111 but with every VCO that has triangle waveform
> > > available.
> > >
> > > The main difference - as mentioned earlier by other
> > > members - between the
> > > Buchla design and other VCOs is the triangle core,
> > > i.e. the basic waveform
> > > from which all other waveforms are derived is
> > > triangle - in contrast e.g. to
> > > the Moog VCOs, SSM2033 or A-110 for which sawtooth
> > > is the basic waveform.
> > > For triangle VCOs normally a bipolar current source
> > > (so-called Wilson
> > > current mirror) is used in contrast to unipolar
> > > current sources for sawtooth
> > > VCOs. The CEM3340 also uses triangle as basic
> > > waveform. So from my (so far
> > > theoretical) point of view using a CEM3340 based VCO
> > > will have no
> > > disadvantages compared to the original Buchla VCO
> > > core as the tracking of
> > > the A-111 is much better. Maybe there are details I
> > > have overlooked but I
> > > don't think so.
> > >
> > > Waveforms derived by waveshaping circuits from
> > > triangle resp. sawtooth will
> > > sound a bit different. One of the "problems" with
> > > sawtooth as basic waveform
> > > is that the saw reset is not immediately but takes a
> > > few microseconds as a
> > > capacitor has to be discharged. Consequently all
> > > waveforms derived from saw
> > > will have a short spike at the reset position of the
> > > saw. For waveforms
> > > derived from triangle this peculiarity does not
> > > appear as only the
> > > charge/discharge direction at the bottom/top of the
> > > wave has to be changed
> > > and consequently the spikes mentioned above do not
> > > occur.
> > >
> > > But the VCO core and the waveshapers are two
> > > different sub-modules. So why
> > > not combine the Buchla waveshaper with triangle or
> > > sawtooth based VCOs. This
> > > is why I advocate for a separate Buchla type
> > > waveshaping unit as it probably
> > > could be combined with any VCO that has a triangle
> > > output available. If a
> > > triangle based VCO is used (e.g. A-111 or any other
> > > CEM3340 based VCO) the
> > > sound should be very close to the Buchla VCO from my
> > > point of view.
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > > Dieter Doepfer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Bakis Siros
> > Parallel Worlds / Polariton
> > Athens-Greece
> > 1 group owner
> > http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
> > http://www.ward12.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
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